From Rock Star Promoter to Award-Winning CSU Educator: Chuck Morris on Building the Next Generation of Music Industry Leaders
Chuck Morris
Description
Kicking off the new year with a high-energy episode that hits all the right notes! 🎵 From promoting icons like The Eagles and ZZ Top to managing stars like Lyle Lovett and Big Head Todd & The Monsters, to launching CSU’s Music Business Program, the legendary Chuck Morris has done it all.
Recently awarded the International Entertainment Buyers Association’s Music and Entertainment Industry Educator of the Year, Chuck reflects on his five-decade career and his deep commitment to mentoring students and inspiring the next generation of music industry leaders. Taking us down memory lane, he regales us with CSU’s rich live music history—from unforgettable (and rainy!) nights at Hughes Stadium to packed shows at Moby Arena with artists like Bob Dylan and The Rolling Stones.
As founder and director of the College of Business’ innovative Music Business Program, Chuck also shares why CSU is the perfect home for the program and his vision for its future.
Now, let’s rock and roll and see where Chuck’s passion takes us! 🎸
Transcript
Amy Parsons: Hi, I’m Amy Parsons, president of Colorado State University and host of “The Next 150” podcast. We have so many remarkable people in our community, and this is where we’re going to hear their stories. We’re going to get their perspectives on CSU’s next 150 years and gather their very best advice for today’s CSU students. Let’s get started.
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of CSU’s The Next 150. I’m here with my friend, Chuck Morris. Longtime friend, Chuck Morris, obviously legendary music producer, leader in the music industry in Colorado for 50—
Chuck Morris: 50 plus years.
Amy Parsons: Something like that.
Chuck Morris: Started my first club in Boulder in 1970.
Amy Parsons: 1970.
Chuck Morris: Tulagi’s.
Amy Parsons: Tulagi’s.
Chuck Morris: And started booking the first dates of The Eagles, ZZ Top, Linda Ronstadt, and all sorts of people.
Amy Parsons: We’re going to come back to some of the acts that you booked at CSU at one point in history, if you can remember. I think I know. We’ll get back there. But now you’re with us at CSU, at Colorado State University. We’re so happy to have you here.
Chuck Morris: And I’m so happy doing what I’m doing.
Amy Parsons: So, let’s start with today because last week, you called me on the phone, and you had just won a major award.
Chuck Morris: Yes.
Amy Parsons: So first, congratulations.
Chuck Morris: Thank you. IEBA is a big organization of people in the music industry, and I was absolutely blown away that they named me Educator of the Year, which is…
Amy Parsons: Educator of the Year.
Chuck Morris: Pretty funny because I spent 50 years as a rock promoter and manager, but I started this program here at CSU. This is right in the middle of the fourth year.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: And I was blown away. I will say that I won a lot of awards—Grammys, and one of my clubs was Billboard Club of the Year twice—but this is more special than anything I’ve ever won. I’m not taking lightly all the other stuff; I was blown away by that, too. But my dad was a schoolteacher in Brooklyn and then a principal, and I always vowed that when I did everything I wanted in the music business, I would start a music business program at a major university. I looked at a couple of schools, and Amy, I can say you were one of the main reasons I decided to come up here, and I’m having the time of my life. I wish my dad was still alive because he’d be blown away.
Amy Parsons: So tell me why that was always a goal of yours at this stage in your life, to be involved with giving back and training the next generation of music industry leaders.
Chuck Morris: For years, I’ve been speaking at different universities as a one-off. I spoke at a whole bunch of schools—Belmont in Nashville, UCD in Denver. I went up to the University of Montana for a weekend, where they flew in executives to speak at their music business program. And I loved it. I vowed that when I did everything I wanted in the music industry and made enough money that I could afford to live on a professor’s salary, I wanted to do this.
In fact, I looked at an old story from like 35 years ago where I said, “Someday, I’m going to start a music business program.” So, I’ve been thinking about this for years. I loved what my dad did. I grew up with teachers and principals in New York, in Brooklyn, and Queens, and I always had great respect for teachers. I always wanted to do this as a second career.
Amy Parsons: Well, we’re really fortunate that you’ve decided to do it at CSU.
Chuck Morris: Oh, I’m fortunate.
Amy Parsons: Even though your roots are in Boulder, even though you started out on The Hill at Tulagi’s…
Chuck Morris: Yup.
Amy Parsons: I love that you’ve ended up here at CSU.
Chuck Morris: Can I tell that story?
Amy Parsons: You can tell the story, sure.
Chuck Morris: Well, I had an offer from Leeds to do it there, and Leeds is probably the best undergraduate school at CU. I went to graduate school at CU until I dropped out to try to make it in the music business. I started my first club, Tulagi’s, in Boulder.
Money had nothing to do with anything; they made me an offer. But Leeds has a rule that if you start a program there, only Leeds kids could take classes. To me, it sort of missed the point. I want music majors to take it. I want liberal arts people who love music to learn about the music business. People who maybe want to become entertainment lawyers—like my co-director, who is still an entertainment lawyer.
Then, at the last minute, Amy Parsons heard about me doing this and called me and said, “Can we make a little proposal at CSU?” I said, “I’m pretty certain I’m going to go to Leeds.” Tell me if my memory is totally right.
Amy Parsons: I think that’s about right.
Chuck Morris: And she said, “Well, let us give you a little proposal and come up to Fort Collins.” I went up, and you must have had 12 or 15 people in there—the president of the school, the head of the business school.
Amy Parsons: Yeah, we had Dean Beth Walker in there.
Chuck Morris: Everybody. I was blown away. I was absolutely blown away and decided to do it here. Leeds is a great school, and it would have been fine, but…
Amy Parsons: I’m glad you picked CSU.
Chuck Morris: I’m so glad, too. It made sense.
Amy Parsons: It really did. Fort Collins is such a great city for live music.
Chuck Morris: It is.
Amy Parsons: Part of the culture here, part of what students love here, part of what our community really loves about it, so…
Chuck Morris: And I’ve been blessed that a lot of my friends have guest lectured. The kids, the students, have been blown away that Griz is an EDM act. I’ve had Illenium…
Amy Parsons: Illenium, yeah.
Chuck Morris: Who sold out Mile High Stadium. I’ve had Big Head Todd come up. I’ve had Michael Franti. I have had Joe, my buddy, close friend Joe Walsh, has come from The Eagles and has done it twice.
Amy Parsons: Yeah. Josh Blue, right?
Chuck Morris: Yes, a couple of weeks ago.
Amy Parsons: Love that. Yeah.
Chuck Morris: He was great.
Amy Parsons: Big talent.
Chuck Morris: And he blew me away. I mean, I’ve known him—not that close, but I’ve known him. And you know what he’s gone through with cerebral palsy, and all this great career is mind-blowing. What he’s done—when I think of the obstacles I’ve overcome, and then I hang out with Josh Blue—it’s nothing compared to what he’s done and how he’s made a career out of it.
Amy Parsons: Yeah. What are you hoping, Chuck, that the CSU students are learning in these classes? What are they taking away for their future in the industry?
Chuck Morris: Good question. I think they’re learning that everybody wants to be in music, but it’s still a job. And it’s really hard. Not hard, but it’s 24 hours a day. And I hope they’re learning that if they want to go into music, they’re learning enough to realize they better really want it, or it’s not going to work. Because when you start in the music business, I don’t care who you are. I mean, I started managing The Sink on The Hill, cleaning the floors and managing. It was a break for me. And then I started booking local bands in the back rooms. Some became famous, like Flash Cadillac and Tommy Bolin, and my career took off. I ran a little three-two bar and started off just… I always tell students: get in the front door.
And I’m hoping that the program can teach students… maybe the number one thing is they’ll learn enough about the music business to decide whether they even want to do it—because it ain’t easy.
Amy Parsons: Yeah. How do you think it’s different for these students who are graduating today from CSU and going into the music industry compared to years ago?
Chuck Morris: That’s a very good question. The music industry—I’ve been doing it since ’70, actually—I booked bands at The Sink, my first job after school. The music business now is, thank God, totally different. I mean, and I’m not saying this in a bad way. A lot more lawyers, a lot more HR people. I mean, think about the big promoting companies. My company, AEG, which is owned by a fairly conservative, wonderful billionaire, Phil Anschutz, who I love to death… Live Nation’s publicly traded. You can’t do the things you used to do in a publicly traded company.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: You know.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: And I think it’s all for the good. And I’ve watched it change, and I’ve been able to change with the times. The people that couldn’t change—the older, old-time people like me—they’re either dead or out of the business now. They couldn’t keep going.
Amy Parsons: Well, you know what I say about the students who are taking your class now, learning all these lessons, learning the history, learning directly from people like you and people in the industry, from the artists? They’re seeing it from all sides, right? And they’re also working in it now, too—booking small acts on campus. So we see the students booking the acts, working with the artists—all of those types of things. That’s amazing experience. I don’t know that there’s another program like it.
Chuck Morris: Yeah, probably not. And, you know, we’ve had students now that have gotten jobs at my old place, AEG. One of them is working for William Morris in Nashville, and, you know, because they meet a lot of people. And I can honestly say, in all the years I hired a million people, I never looked— I shouldn’t say this, my mother, may she rest in peace, would kill me—I never looked at a grade point average. But I did look at students if they interned and…
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: Stuff.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: Early.
Amy Parsons: It’s really the most important thing: get that real-world experience.
Chuck Morris: It really is. And as I always tell students: get a job part-time while you’re a student. Anything in music—the radio station in town, a record store in town, working for The Bohemian, which does a lot of stuff, or whatever—you know, just get your foot in the door.
Amy Parsons: Yeah, there’s a lot of opportunities like that around here, and it’s a win for everybody because they’re bringing in local artists to play at CSU. So the students, the general student population, get the benefit of it as well because we’re getting better acts in town, right? We’re getting this great live music, and the students get to produce it.
Chuck Morris: Well, you know, we were involved in getting Goose to come up here, which did 13,000 people.
Amy Parsons: At least 13,000. A lot of people here.
Chuck Morris: Well, that got started because I ran AEG for the Rocky Mountain and Northwest regions. And when I stepped down to come up here, my predecessor—Don Strasburg and Brent Fedrizzi, who are the co-presidents now—were meeting with the band. The band’s audience is a little bit older, in their 30s. They said, “We want to play in front of a younger audience, maybe a school.” And Don said to the band, “You know Chuck, of course, is running this program. Why don’t you come play CSU?” And that’s how it all started.
Amy Parsons: Yeah, we want a lot more of that. That was an amazing night, actually.
Chuck Morris: It really was.
Amy Parsons: Absolutely loved it. A gorgeous night, big outdoor festival field…
Chuck Morris: It was amazing.
Amy Parsons: And the band actually played for free.
Chuck Morris: Yeah, they did.
Amy Parsons: Students had a great night. We had a lot of alumni come back and loved seeing it. And we haven’t had a lot of big shows on campus like that, especially since COVID. So, you know how much I love bringing those shows in, and, with your help in this program, I think we’re going to see more and more.
Chuck Morris: Yeah, I mean, obviously, I would like to. There hasn’t been a music show yet in the stadium here. And you know, whenever you’re Chuck Morris, just tell a band they ought to play the stadium. It’s not that easy. If a band is doing a stadium tour, they’re obviously going to want to play Mile High or Folsom because it’s a bigger market, and you can’t play two stadiums. So, we have to find the right act. But I’m on a mission to put a band at the stadium here, and it’s just been a little slow on that.
Amy Parsons: History: you were the last music producer, I think, to put big acts into our old Hughes Stadium.
Chuck Morris: Well, me and Barry Fey. I was the number one guy at Feyline, and we did the Rolling Stones in ’72. Then we did Bob Dylan’s Rolling Thunder Revue in ’74, and I was Fey’s number one guy and partner. The Rolling Thunder Revue at Hughes Stadium was the most—if any old-timers are listening to this—that was Bob Dylan doing a tour with a bunch of other famous, semi-famous people. T-Bone Burnett, Roger McGuinn from The Byrds, and a whole bunch of different acts.
And we did it at Hughes Stadium, and I think it was the worst weather in the history of my career. It rained for 36 hours the day before and through the show. I mean, poured.
Amy Parsons: Must have been just mud everywhere.
Chuck Morris: There was, literally, by the middle of the show, a lake behind the stage. And it rained so hard for 24 hours. And God bless Bob Dylan—he stopped 1,800 times, but he did the show.
It was really interesting because Bob Dylan, who I promoted for years—although Bob Dylan is really reclusive, and I’m best friends with his manager—Bob will still walk by me and look at me like, “I think I know this guy, but I’m not sure who he is.” I’m not knocking Bob at all; he’s really reclusive. He doesn’t chat. He goes, plays the show, gets off his bus, and leaves. That’s fine—artists are all different.
So, we did the Rolling Thunder Revue in Fort Collins. He had taped like 12 of the shows because he was playing stadiums around the country, but Bob Dylan picked the show at Hughes, which had almost been canceled 18 times. It was, in some ways, a disaster. And he made it the NBC special on the DVD. I was trying to think, why would Bob do that? My guess is he probably said to himself, “Those fans stayed the whole day. If they did that, let other people see that show instead.” And it was called The Hard Rain.
Amy Parsons: A Hard Rain’s A-Gonna Fall.
Chuck Morris: Because it was a hard rain, to say the least. It was, I think, physically the toughest problem I ever had in all the years I’ve done shows.
Amy Parsons: What was the Rolling Stones show out there like?
Chuck Morris: You know, I just joined Feyline, so I only came up for a little while. It was the Rolling Stones—they do it. They’re amazing. In fact, AEG right now is doing the Stones around the world.
Amy Parsons: Well, maybe we can get the Stones or Bob Dylan back to…
Chuck Morris: Yeah, hey…
Amy Parsons: My own personal plug. Who would you love to have as a guest in the class that you haven’t had yet? When you think ahead, who would you love to be able to come in and guest lecture to our students?
Chuck Morris: Well, I’ve had a lot of well-known artists and executives. Jay Marciano, CEO of AEG Worldwide, who, by the way, was my first guest because he went to CSU, graduated from CSU years ago. Jay started his promoting company here, went to CSU and Colorado Springs, and couldn’t compete with me and Barry Fey. Couldn’t make a living, so he moved to L.A. and became a star. And now he’s the CEO of AEG Worldwide.
And I always tell students, “Your competition today—enemy/competition—is better. Could be your partner or your boss tomorrow.” So, I was always really nice to all the people I competed with. And sure enough, Jay now runs AEG Worldwide. We were great friends, and, you know, I was a mensch when he couldn’t compete with me and Barry Fey. I don’t think he ever forgot that. And now he’s running the whole company, AEG Worldwide.
Amy Parsons: Yeah, that’s pretty amazing.
Chuck Morris: Yeah. He was my first guest. And Big Head Todd Park Mohr, who I managed for almost 20 years and still do their shows at Red Rocks, was also one of my first guests because Todd went to school here for a year before he dropped out.
Amy Parsons: I saw Todd. I went to school here too, you know, and I saw Todd when they were on tour with Dave Matthews Band.
Chuck Morris: I did that show.
Amy Parsons: In the ’90s at Moby. Yeah.
Chuck Morris: Todd and Dave did 40 shows together.
Amy Parsons: Well, when I saw them, Dave opened for Todd.
Chuck Morris: That’s a funny story. They were both exploding. I was managing Todd and still promoting a lot of shows. We ended up doing a whole tour with Dave and Todd, and the third act I managed called The Ugly Americans. You probably don’t remember them.
Amy Parsons: I remember the name, yeah.
Chuck Morris: I managed them. But anyway, after about—it was equal money, equal time—but Todd was slightly bigger before the tour started. Then, after about the eighth date, Dave’s RCA record came out, and he started selling 100,000 records a week.
Coran Capshaw, who still manages Dave and is one of my best friends, called me and said, “Chuck, you know, we still want to split the money, and we still want to have equal sets,”—it was like 75 minutes each—”But we’d like to close the show because a few people are leaving early.” I decided that was the right thing to do. So, after about the eighth date, we flipped it, and Dave finished the whole tour.
Amy Parsons: I must have seen it in those very first early shows.
Chuck Morris: Yes. Yeah. Moby Gym.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: It was Moby Gym, yeah. I still have the ad on my phone.
Amy Parsons: Do you?
Chuck Morris: Of that show. I’ll show you after we’re done.
Amy Parsons: I’d love to see that.
Chuck Morris: Yeah, it’s on my phone.
Amy Parsons: That’s great.
Chuck Morris: It’s on my—it’s in my office, I think. My AEG office—there is a picture of that poster.
Amy Parsons: That’d be great. You know, there are posters, I think, in the Bohemian Suite at the new stadium of your old shows.
Chuck Morris: I saw that.
Amy Parsons: Hughes Stadium.
Chuck Morris: Yeah, yeah.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: But yeah, that was a great tour. It really blew both of those artists up. I think both became big, but Dave became much bigger.
Amy Parsons: Yeah, I’m big fans of them both.
Chuck Morris: And I love Dave. Dave—I still get involved with him. He hasn’t changed a bit.
Amy Parsons: He’d be super as a guest.
Chuck Morris: Yeah, he would. Yeah, I think we definitely want to do that. And he’s just—if anybody knows him at all—he’s the most unpretentious rock star maybe I’ve ever known.
I’ll tell you my favorite story, which Dave had told me about, and I think it was written up. He was playing in Pennsylvania at—what’s the place?—an amphitheater there. And he has a bicycle on his bus and decided he wanted to take a bicycle ride by himself. He didn’t take his credit card or anything. He was going to get back for soundcheck, and he got a flat tire.
Amy Parsons: On his bike?
Chuck Morris: On his bike. And this is a great story. And, you know, Dave was wearing his hat backward and dark glasses, so people wouldn’t think it was Dave Matthews. He hitchhiked back to the arena and got picked up by a guy and his girlfriend, who were going to the show.
Dave said, “I need a ride to the show tonight,” and they said, “We’re going.” After about 15 minutes, the guy said, “You look like Dave Matthews.” He was on his bicycle with the blown tire in the back and said, “Yeah.”
Amy Parsons: People tell me that all the time.
Chuck Morris: Yeah. And he, by the way, invited them to sit on the side of the stage for the whole show.
Amy Parsons: Oh, wow.
Chuck Morris: And introduced them to the audience.
Amy Parsons: Oh my God.
Chuck Morris: He’s like that. He’s just wonderful, funny—hasn’t changed a bit since he was…
Amy Parsons: His live shows, I mean, it’s still the best—
Chuck Morris: He’s the greatest.
Amy Parsons: —live experience. Love it.
Chuck Morris: And I love the guy. Actually, one of my best friends in the world is a guy named Irving Azoff.
Amy Parsons: Yeah, I do.
Chuck Morris: He manages The Eagles—still does—the biggest manager in the history of the business. He also owns Azoff Music, and he’s one of my oldest friends since the second Eagles tape when they were rehearsing for their first album.
I called Irving about speaking. I’ve had everybody from his company, and some of his bands, come. I said, “Irving, how about speaking?” And he said, “Chuck, I’m just a little uncomfortable. If I do yours, I’ve never done one. I’ll have to say no to like ten more.” I said, “Well, I can’t blame you.” God bless Irving—he’s been so great as a friend.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: And all of his acts, starting with The Eagles and Dan Fogelberg—I loved Dan to death. Irving grew up with Dan Fogelberg in Illinois.
Amy Parsons: Oh, really?
Chuck Morris: Oh, yeah. Best friends. Tragic when Dan died. I did a tribute show to Dan at Fiddler’s about three years ago with all of the acts that loved him. It was great.
Amy Parsons: What are you listening to, music-wise, personally, Chuck, these days?
Chuck Morris: You know I’m an old…
Amy Parsons: Like when you’re alone, in your car, or at home—what do you put on?
Chuck Morris: That’s The Eagles; Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young; Neil Young. I’m still showing my age. There have been a couple of “younger” bands that I love that have come up. Younger bands that have been around five, ten, 15 years. To me, that’s young—the Avett Brothers. I love those guys.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: Love those guys. And the nicest guys. I would not miss their shows and would play them in my car—or a band called Old Crow Medicine Show, who I love to death. They’re sort of a hippie bluegrass band.
Amy Parsons: Yeah. That’s just one thing, among so many, about working on a college campus—being around this age of students, right? Just the energy that they bring and the acts and what they put on the radio and the bands that come in, the small ones, the big ones. You’re always learning new music, you know?
Chuck Morris: Well, part of my success has been that I hire people that know stuff I don’t know. I always hire people that might know the new music more than I do because, you know, I’m not going to be an expert on some of the new stuff coming up. I’ve always hired younger people—not necessarily younger in age, but people that knew stuff I didn’t know.
A friend of mine—his favorite line when people ask him why he’s successful is, “I always hire people smarter than me.” And I don’t know a lot of people smarter than the person I’m talking about, but I understand what he’s saying, and I try to do the same thing.
Amy Parsons: That’s good advice for our students, too.
As we wrap up this episode, I always try to end by talking about our students. That’s what we’re here for at CSU—our students’ success. And now you’re part of that student success, helping bring students through. What additional advice do you have for today’s CSU students, whether they’re in the business school, the music program, or not, as they’re starting their careers here?
Chuck Morris: What I did, and what I always advise younger people—I’ve had five kids—and I’ve always told them from day one: Follow your heart. Don’t follow the bucks. Follow what you want to do. I don’t care if you want to be a garbage cleaner or whatever—you know, just follow what you love.
Don’t say, “Okay, this industry, I can make more money than that industry.” My success and other people’s success I know came from following their hearts—what they love and what they can’t get enough of. That’s what I did in the music industry.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: And, you know, don’t chase money. Don’t chase prestige. Just follow your heart, no matter what it is.
Amy Parsons: Yeah.
Chuck Morris: I have a daughter who went to CU’s music school—a great singer—and she decided she wanted to be a rabbi. Now she’s a rabbi in Steamboat Springs.
Amy Parsons: Amazing.
Chuck Morris: She followed her heart. I’m not a very religious person, but God bless her—she followed her heart and loves what she’s doing.
Amy Parsons: That’s amazing. Well, that’s great advice for our students. Chuck, we’re so fortunate to have you at Colorado State University.
Chuck Morris: I’m fortunate to be here. Honestly, it’s made me younger.
Amy Parsons: In our music business program.
Chuck Morris: It’s kept me happy, alive, and kicking. I love sitting around my office, having students come out and just talk.
Amy Parsons: I love coming over just to talk, too, and to see your amazing guest speakers.
Chuck Morris: CSU is lucky to have you here.
Amy Parsons: Well, Go Rams! Thanks for being here today, Chuck.
Chuck Morris: Thank you for inviting me. I’m having the time of my life.
Amy Parsons: I love it. This program’s just going to continue to take off thanks to you.
Chuck Morris: And I’m writing an autobiography, did I tell you that?
Amy Parsons: Yes.
Chuck Morris: It’s called From Brooklyn to Boulder: The Saga of a Rock Promoter.
Amy Parsons: By way of CSU? Can I add that?
Chuck Morris: Maybe.
Amy Parsons: Stick a Ram logo on it. We’ll talk about it in a future episode.
Chuck Morris: Perfect. And thank you for having me. Honestly, Amy, this program has been one of the highlights of my entire career.
Amy Parsons: Well, it’s been one of the highlights of CSU as well. And with you leading the charge, we’re building something really special here.
Chuck Morris: I feel the same way. Watching these students grow, learn, and then go out into the world—it’s what I’ve always wanted to do at this stage in my life.
Amy Parsons: And we’re all grateful for it. So, here’s to many more incredible guest speakers, big campus shows, and, of course, all of those life lessons you’re sharing along the way.
Chuck Morris: Absolutely. Thanks again for letting me be part of the CSU family.
Amy Parsons: Always, Chuck. Go Rams!
Chuck Morris: Go Rams!