Amy Parsons: Hi, I’m Amy Parsons, president of Colorado State University and host of The Next 150 podcast. We have so many remarkable people in our community, and this is where we’re going to hear their stories. We’re going to get their perspectives on CSU’s next 150 years and gather their very best advice for today’s CSU students. Let’s get started, Rams.

Norman Harris: Welcome to Spangalang.

Amy Parsons: Thanks.

Norman Harris: Thank you so much for having me on your platform.

Amy Parsons: Yeah, so excited to be here today. I just admire you so much and what you do as an entrepreneur and community organizer. And this place is just amazing. So, let’s start here. The name Spangalang. Tell us about that. And then what happens here?

Norman Harris: Well, outside of it being a really huge conversation piece, like Spangalang, Spangalang. It’s actually a jazz term. It’s a drum cadence. So, when a drummer’s hitting the cymbal and it goes, “tsst tss tss tsst tss tss tsst,” is actually what a spangalang is.

Amy Parsons: That’s a spangalang.

Norman Harris: But I think it really just pays homage to the jazz roots of Five Points and our culture here. And we’ve really worked hard to just merge not only music, but good food, good beer, all in one place where folks can come together.

Amy Parsons: Yeah. And you’re the co-owner of this establishment. How long has it been open?

Norman Harris: So, the brewery has been open since 2015. Our family purchased the brewery in 2022 and really just kind of embarked on a transformation to move it from just being a place for just only beer to what I think is just more of a community hub that brings people together.

Amy Parsons: That’s awesome. We’ll talk about the beer in a minute, because I know you’ve worked with CSU on some beer projects, as well, which is so great. But we’re here really in the heart of Five Points. It’s been known as the Harlem of the West. I think you’re a fifth-generation from Five Points. So, talk to us about what it’s like to be here in the middle of Five Points and why that’s important to you.

Norman Harris: Well, I mean, I’d say Five Points is the Harlem of the West, and it is becoming what we think of as a melting pot, one of the city’s only melting pots where so many folks are welcome from different backgrounds and ethnicities. And I think what really makes it unique is its architecture, the kind of mom-and-pop feel of stores that are one of one along this corridor. And it’s just got a very rich history of not only African American property ownership and business ownership, but entrepreneururism and, of course, jazz music, which is one of the foundations that made this place and is making this place a hopping destination for the city of Denver, Colorado.

Amy Parsons: Yeah. So, you are a leader in Five Points. You’re the executive director of the Business Improvement District here. Talk to us about that work that you’re doing with the Business Improvement District, what you hope to achieve through that work.

Norman Harris: Well, you know, honestly, it really doesn’t feel like work. I do believe that my purpose right now is advancing this corridor and leading this community to new heights. And if you love what you do, it’s just not work. It’s just a part of your purpose and why I wake up in the morning. And so, building connections with not only the other business owners here, but residents and property owners, it’s really a dream come true to come down and really be able to put my mark on this community and be able to advance it and move it forward.

Amy Parsons: What are some of the challenges that you’re facing in that work? And what do you wish people knew about Five Points and about this district?

Norman Harris: Well, you know, I think that the challenge to leading a community is really, I believe, it’s getting everyone to get behind one vision and one goal. And we have a vision of creating what we’re defining as a modernized cultural marketplace. But defining that vision, getting everyone to buy in, has been part of that process. But I think once folks really come down and immerse themselves in the Welton Corridor and the Five Points community, they understand that there’s no place like this in the rest of the United States.

Amy Parsons: Well, one important thing that happens here is the Juneteenth Music Festival, which you’re one of the lead organizers of the music festival, which I think is now one of the largest in the country. So, congratulations on that. Talk to us about that work and the vision for Juneteenth and the history of Juneteenth.

Norman Harris: Well, Juneteenth obviously celebrates June 19th, 1865. That’s the day that Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, or no, that’s the day that slaves in Texas found out their freedom two years following the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation. And really what Juneteenth means to this community is it’s a cultural anchor that has really been a defining moment for all of Denver to come and celebrate freedom. It’s been honored here in Five Points since, I think, the early 1960s, and it had an incredible history, and it also had some ups and downs, but I was fortunate enough to start leading the celebration in 2012. So, this will actually be year 15 of building Juneteenth Music Festival. And if I can say what it is, it’s really a cultural treasure chest, and our city’s best are on display here in Denver. There’s over 200 vendors. There’s nearly 20,000 people that come on a daily basis to really celebrate what I think is the best of African-American culture.

Amy Parsons: Wow. So proud of you as a Ram leading this work and really not leading just Five Points in Denver, but across the country in this amazing work, and really bringing all this attention to the great music scene we have in Denver and the jazz scene in Denver, and you’re a big part of that. Talk just a little bit about the jazz scene in Denver and what’s happening here at Spangalang and in the city.

Norman Harris: Well, I think what we have right now is really the opportunity to reintroduce jazz, not only to some of our elders in the community, but there’s a whole new generation of folks who are coming of age that we are introducing jazz music to. And to kind of be at the tip of the spear, where Spangalang, you can come in here at any point and you’ll find someone that’s maybe 21, and you might find someone that’s in their 70s or 80s. And that, I keep calling it a melting pot, where the common vibration is that of jazz music, is really incredibly exciting. So, to be at the forefront of leading a new wave of inspiration for people to understand jazz music, why it’s really an art form of improvisation that people can enjoy, is truly a dream come true.

Amy Parsons: Have you loved jazz your whole life?

Norman Harris: I have. It’s been played in my household. I would be riding to school with my grandmother, drive me to school, and she’d have on the jazz music stations or playing jazz records in our home. And then we also had musicians in our family. I played saxophone at one point, and our family would get together and kind of just do little jams. And so it’s definitely in my blood in terms of just understanding how critical having music really just, it makes life a little bit better.

Amy Parsons: Yeah. We talk about in your blood, being a CSU Ram is also in your blood, right? Your mother was a Ram, graduated from CSU. You’re second generation.

Norman Harris: Yeah. And hopefully, little Emory. We got to come up and enjoy a football game.

Amy Parsons: I know.

Norman Harris: It’s funny, I brought my daughter up, and I just wanted to just say thank you to the CSU community. Alison Hughes, who I believe is in the alumni department, really was proactive with reaching out to me at a point where, and really extended this olive branch to say, “Come get back involved with the school.” And so what that meant was, I believe I came up and I toured the School of Fermentation and went to, I believe I met you at an alumni event, and really got to understand that there is a process in which, me as an alumni, can actually start giving back.

Amy Parsons: That’s awesome. Let’s talk about your beer for a minute. We’ve got some of your cans here and how you worked with the CSU Fermentation Science Program.

Norman Harris: Yeah. So, again, there was a point where we came up to the School of Fermentation and met Dr. John Wilson, who I believe is one of the heavy hitters in the School of Fermentation and just created a relationship. I remember it like it was yesterday. My brewer and I, we drove up together and didn’t know what to expect. And next thing I know, I was getting an email from the School of Fermentation saying, “Let’s collaborate on a beer for a beer fest.” And so the actual process was Dr. Wilson asked us for a playlist. He actually came down here, and he saw a jazz band, and he kind of came to understand how important music was to our culture here in Spangalang. So, I sent him a playlist that he shared with students. The students actually developed a beer recipe, which was a molè-inspired imperial stout.

Amy Parsons: Wow.

Norman Harris: So, kind of like a Mexican imperial stout, if that resonates with anyone. And it was just a great process. And the fact that we got to introduce some students in the School of Fermentation with Spangalang, and they took a little slightly different approach to developing a really unique recipe was great. And then we were at CollabFest serving it together with-

Amy Parsons: How did it do?

Norman Harris: Oh, the keg was tapped. So, looking forward to more collaborations for sure.

Amy Parsons: What was the name of the beer? I think it was like Art of Darkness.

Norman Harris: Art of Darkness.

Amy Parsons: Yeah.

Norman Harris: Wow, good job. Yeah.

Amy Parsons: So, they listened to your playlist, they got the vibe, and translated that into the actual recipe.

Norman Harris: And it was one of those things where I didn’t just send them jazz because there was jazz, there was hip hop, there was rock, there was pop. There was like, “Here are the top five songs in these different categories of music that I think define what being in Spangalang means.” But Dr. Wilson actually kind of, he’s a master, and was able to drive that out of us, and the students took it and ran with it.

Amy Parsons: What a great experience and thank you for engaging with CSU and giving our students that experience.

Norman Harris: For sure.

Amy Parsons: When you were a student at CSU, could you have imagined that this is what you would be doing today?

Norman Harris: In some ways, yes, I think I could. I wouldn’t say that when I was at CSU, I knew exactly what I wanted to do, but I knew that I was going to make a difference. And that is one of the unique characteristics of the school is that it provided this platform for opportunity for me. And I can remember, I mean, I’m probably dating myself, but there was a point when the Ramskeller was renovated, and we actually got an opportunity to throw a party in the Ramskeller. We were the first folks that threw some party in the Ramskeller. And so I think, again, without knowing exactly what my career path was going to be, I knew that the environment of Colorado State was providing me with opportunities to grow. So, if you’d have asked the Norman of the mid-1990s, “What are you going to be when you grow up?” That person probably would have been like, “I don’t know.” But what I did know is that there was a real true foundation of solid academic and social experiences that were crafting who I was becoming.

Amy Parsons: Say mid-nineties, you and I were there at the same time, actually. I never would’ve imagined that I’d be here interviewing you about this. You just don’t know.

Norman Harris: Well, I mean, again, but kudos to you as well, because I think from what I’m seeing, it feels like you are putting your mark and your stamp on the institution itself, and you’re leading it to new heights and new foundations that the school deserves.

Amy Parsons: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And the best thing about my job is to meet alums and hear about your journey from CSU and the amazing things. And you’re one of the alums that I just admire so much in what you’re doing. And I know you did a big pivot in your career as well. You didn’t start out going into the brewery industry, you didn’t start out being a community organizer. How did you make that big pivot in your life to now what you’re doing here at Spangalang and in Five Points?

Norman Harris: Well, I think every experience that you have is a piece of education. And so I’m so thankful for the steps that I took. My first job out of CSU, I literally got the interview at a job fair at CSU, walked in with my resume, and literally got a call. I hadn’t even taken my last final, but it was with, the name of the company, is called Janus, that I literally worked. When I walked into Janus, they told me this was going to be your first and last job. But stepping into that place, which I’m so thankful for, I learned so many things from marketing to customer service to learning investments, because I’m an English major.

Amy Parsons: Yeah. Well, we’re glad you made the pivot. I think everybody here in the community is so glad for the work that you’re doing here now. And at CSU, obviously our number one priority is our students. There’s so much that our students can learn from you in your journey as an entrepreneur, as a community leader. When you think back to your time at CSU, what is some advice that you would want to give to today’s CSU students who are just starting out on their journey?

Norman Harris: Yeah. If I could even tell my prior self or my younger self, I think it’s try to find your passion as quickly as possible. Life is too short to do things that you don’t love, first and foremost. Two, the steps, there’s, staying focused. And what that means to me is that I think when you’re young, developing good skills and habits are critically important. You could be sitting in a class wondering why you’re there, but you are there for a reason, and there’s probably nothing… The things that you can derive from, be it a professor or maybe another friend, those are just priceless lessons that you should be drawing from your opportunity of being in an educational institution like Colorado State. So, number one, just love and passion. Number two, skills and habits. And number three, just definitely staying focused.

Amy Parsons: Amazing. That’s great advice. So, as we’re wrapping up, where can people learn more about Spangalang and what’s coming up, what acts are coming up, and do you have a favorite beer you want to recommend to people that you make?

Norman Harris: For sure. So, it’s… Kind of caught me off guard here. So, our website is SpangalangBrewery.com. I would encourage folks to, if you can, at least follow us on social media. So, we’re on TikTok and Instagram and Facebook. We have live music at least two or three times a week. We just encourage you to come here, not only to Spangalang, but to visit Five Points. Not only is Spangalang a melting pot, but I believe Five Points is a melting pot, as well, where our doors are open to everyone.

Amy Parsons: What?

Norman Harris: Yes. So, if there’s anything that we do here, we’re unapologetic in making sure that our culture is expressed in the products that we create.

Amy Parsons: Amazing.

Norman Harris: So, following Juneteenth, we had all this Kool-Aid left over. Our master brewer, Darren, was in the back. He’s like a mad scientist, and we just started making seltzers, and he put Kool-Aid in a seltzer. And it is by far one of our biggest sellers.

Amy Parsons: That’s amazing.

Norman Harris: Yeah. If you follow us on social media, it’s Spangalang Brewery or SpangalangBrewery.com, you can learn about us. As well as the FivePointsBid.com. You can find out more information about Five Points and JuneteenthMusicFestival.com. That’s a lot to say about-

Amy Parsons: JuneteenthMusicFestival.com. And last question, the art in here is amazing.

Norman Harris: Yeah.

Amy Parsons: So, tell me just a little bit about what we’re looking at around, what we see.

Norman Harris: So, what I was trying to mention is that Spangalang is this intersection where craft beer, art, and music all sort of meet. And so what we’ve done is we’ve worked with quite a few local artists who have created one-of-a-kind pieces here. Probably one of my most beloved artists, his name is Randy McNulty. He’s done this kind of caricature of Five Points here. And so it’s all over our walls.

Amy Parsons: Amazing. Well, Norman, thanks for letting us in today…

Norman Harris: Thank you so much for having me.

Amy Parsons: …and having this conversation, and thanks for being a great role model to other Rams, and we just appreciate you so much.

Norman Harris: Well, I’m so thankful. Again, proud of the work that you’re doing. I’m proud to be a CSU Ram. I can genuinely say that.

Amy Parsons: That’s a good place to end. Thanks, Norman. Thanks, everyone. We’ll see you at Spangalang Brewery in Five Points. Take care. Go Rams. Thank you for listening. I’m Amy Parsons, president of Colorado State University, and you’re listening to CSU’s The Next 150, where we explore what comes next for CSU by chatting with change makers who are already leading the charge and shaping our next 150 years. I’m gathering their very best advice for today’s CSU students. Stay tuned to wherever you get podcasts for our next outstanding conversation. Go Rams.