Secretary John F. Kelly

Secretary John F. Kelly: Reflections on Public Service and Hopes for American Democracy

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Publish Date: 10/21/2024

Description

In Episode 6 of The Next 150, we welcome Secretary John F. Kelly, a 45-year Marine Corps veteran who led the U.S. Southern Command.

After retiring as a four-star general in 2016, Sec. Kelly went on to serve as the 5th U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security and later as White House Chief of Staff under the Trump administration.

We explore Sec. Kelly’s strategies for students on becoming informed voters, emphasizing the need for civil discourse, diverse news sources, and community engagement. Sec. Kelly reflects on his military career, public service, and the shared values that give him hope for the future of American democracy.

Transcript

Amy Parsons [00:00:04] Hi, I’m Amy Parsons, president of Colorado State University and host of “The Next 150” podcast. We have so many remarkable people in our community. And this is where we’re going to hear their stories. We’re going to get their perspectives on CSU’s next 150 years and gather their very best advice for today’s CSU students. Let’s get started. Rams. Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of CSU’s “Next 150.” I’m here today with a very special distinguished guest, U.S. Secretary John F Kelly. Secretary Kelly, thank you for being with us today. Thank you for visiting Colorado State University, spending time with our students and sharing your experience and your knowledge with our entire CSU community today. We’re honored to host you on campus and to invite you to our beautiful city, Fort Collins, Colorado. Hopefully you’ve been having a good trip here so far.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:00:54] Very much so. Thanks.

 

Amy Parsons [00:00:55] For today’s conversation, we’re going to focus on service, on civil discourse, voting, and, of course, your advice for today’s Colorado State University students. First, I’d like to share more about you for our listeners before getting into our questions, if that’s okay with you.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:01:10] Sure, of course.

 

Amy Parsons [00:01:10] It won’t be a long bio.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:01:13] Shorter is better.

 

Amy Parsons [00:01:13] Shorter is better. I’ll do my best. But you’ve had a very remarkable career spanning 45 years in the United States Marine Corps. Throughout your extensive career in the military, you served in many command positions, including heading the U.S. Southern Command, where you focused on U.S. border security, organized crime, terrorist organizations and drug traffickers. You retired as a Four-Star General in 2016. Following that, you took on the role of the 5th United States Secretary of Homeland Security in the Trump administration. You were then selected to serve as the White House chief of staff. Today, you’re serving in a very different way — lecturing, conducting seminars on ethical and moral leadership and decision making, engaging with communities like ours on issues like democracy. For that, we’re very grateful. So with so much ground to cover, I think I’d like to start by asking you about your young life as a young adult. Since we are an institution of higher education, thousands of young people here are starting their careers. What inspired you earlier in your, in your life to pursue a career of service to the country?

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:02:17] Well, it was kind of easy back then because you had this thing called the draft. And back in those days, every young man had to register for the draft. The war, Vietnam War, was going. And so that kind of started it as a kid growing up in Boston, very working class part of the city, which was almost the whole city back then. Everyone, every man in my life and women, for that matter, were survivors, if you will, of World War Two and the Depression. Every, almost every, man was a veteran of either World War One, believe it or not. World War Two, mostly World War Two or or the Korean War. And the expectation was in my neighborhood was that you would serve when called. So that started it. And so I went in the Marine Corps in 1970, had no idea I’d stay as long as I did. It was first an initial two-year commitment. Some of my junior leaders, my leaders, leadership made the case to me that maybe I had some potential to be, you know, also a good Marine officer. So I went that route. But the thing that I learned in the very early days of my life were, you know, service to the nation was automatic again, to veterans of my life and their wives, my mom. And, and it just I met remarkably good people in the Marine Corps. Different than most in terms of, well, they were more committed and more focused on service. And again, lower middle class for the most part. But I wanted to be part of it for as long as I could. And, and 45 years is considerable.

 

Amy Parsons [00:03:59] Sort of coming full circle in a way to now, at this point in your career, working with young people, guest lecturing them today, you spent time with our Army Air Force ROTC students, many of our veteran students, and their families. What inspires you today towards service and working with those young people who are just starting their career?

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:04:18] Well, you know, when I retired in ’16, February ’16, I mean, my whole life I’ve been in the Marine Corps and, and in service to the country. So I got this cold phone call, I’m not a political type at all, but a very cold phone call just after the 2016 election about going into the administration. I didn’t know anyone in the administration, was a total cold call. To this day, I don’t know why they called me. But it was a great opportunity to continue serving. A lot of opportunities after I left the Marine Corps to make money and all that, but thats has never driven me. So I went in as the Department of Homeland Security and then drafted into being a chief of staff. When I left those jobs, and I do all the time, I continued to teach in the war colleges. These are, you know, 40-year-old lieutenant colonel types. And also the armed forces has programs for junior general officers, senior general officers, that by law, they have to continue the education process. So I do those. I teach seminar better, better way to put it. At the FBI Academy in and ethics and leadership decision making. So my way to continue giving back and continue to try to develop the next generation of great leaders.

 

Amy Parsons [00:05:40] You know, Colorado State University is a land grant institution, so we were founded in that unique history of the country of access to education and world-class research intended to strengthen our security and our economy in the country. And we were founded also on military service and education. And the ROTC programs have been part of university for 150 years. And we’re really proud of that history here and our support for student veterans. Understanding that 90% of Americans have not served in the military. Now, what do you think our entire student body or our entire university community should know about that history and that military service in the country and here at CSU that maybe they don’t know or don’t appreciate?

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:06:26] We know it hasn’t always been this way, has for the most part. But the US military, in the opinion of the average Joe or Jane, American, is very high. It’s the number one most admired and respected institution in the country, followed by law enforcement and first responders. And then it goes down, down, down from there. And even though most Americans, particularly since, since the advent of the all volunteer force, don’t serve, and frankly, most Americans don’t know anyone that’s in the armed forces or has ever served. But there’s still a sense that these are the guy, the men and women that keep me safe back here at home, just like police officers, you know, keep people safe here. I used to say when I was at D.H.S., the military fights the away game in protecting America and the law enforcement, D.H.S., Department of Homeland Security, F.B.I., people like that. They fight the home game. And the good news after suffering that terrible day on 9/11 is that there’s a tremendous amount of talking back and forth within the law to continue. So I think Americans have just a sense of, don’t know why they do it, never thought of doing it myself, but boy, am I sure glad they’re doing it. And it’s a lot of appreciation there.

 

Amy Parsons [00:07:44] Yeah. Are there things that people like me who are university presidents can be doing to help inspire more students to go into, for example, Army Air Force ROTC, to choose that as a path when they come to college?

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:07:58] Certainly there’s ways you could encourage the young people to take a look at it. You know, one of the it saddens me to say that in our country today 77% of people, young people between the ages of 18 and 24 are not qualified to join the armed forces. So and of that 23%, you know, they’re not, the’yre not all breaking the doors down, but that’s the same population the military draws from, law enforcement draw from and our first responders draw from. So there’s a very small number anyways. But to encourage people to consider it, get out and talk to people about it, it will change their lives for the better. They will become, whether they stay in for, you know, four years or a lot longer like I did. They will, it does in a very positive sense, it changes you. One of the biggest things for me and for everybody that goes in the armed forces, it gives you a real sense of what America is all about. You know, I grew up in a very Irish-Catholic neighborhood in Boston. I didn’t really know any Asian kids or any Black people. I didn’t know any Protestant people when I went in the armed forces, that’s, you know, there were.

 

Amy Parsons [00:09:10] Yeah.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:09:10] And you just realize it’s a great country. Frankly, most of us all want the same thing — A job, a family, to be left alone. If you know my favorite sports team, they win always. But it is a very, very positive thing on not only the individuals lives, but on American society. I just I thought I just wish more people would encourage, whether you serve in the military or do other things in the community to help, you know, advance the ball, so to speak. Because American needs, you know, our society needs a lot of help. Is a lot of people out there that are desperate for help and we should help them.

 

Amy Parsons [00:09:51] I agree with that. And I think that’s one strength of a large public land grant institution like this is the diversity of people who are here. You know, our strength is in the diversity of all kinds of people coming in to a learning community like this. Diverse, intellectually, socially, culturally, all sharing the same, same space. And we really try here. And I think most large universities like this try to be a place where people are safe and free to bring their own viewpoints and perspectives to the table. We also want to create an environment where people are open to other perspectives, open to changing their minds even about their things they think they have convictions about. I’m interested from your career how you’ve honed that skill of being true to your own values while also being open to listening to other perspectives and perhaps even changing your mind on issues.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:10:45] Well, obviously, first you have to talk to each other and not yell each other and have to honestly consider the other person’s opinion. That I would say used to be the case. It’s not seemingly not the case anymore. You know, there’s so many people, as an example, and not necessarily my family, but where I live in Virginia who have lost contact with their kids because of political differences. You know, they don’t have Thanksgiving together anymore. It’s insane. Honest men and women should be able to disagree and not hate each other. And if, to your point, you listen and maybe you start to change your mind. And even if you can’t change your mind to, you know, to to listen and say, “I know what you’re saying, but I disagree. Let’s go have a beer.” I think that the people that should be leading this, I think our political leadership in the Congress and in and certainly in the White House to do more of that. You don’t see it as much anymore. It’s changed a lot. But I think they could do a real service to our country to encourage people to stop the hatefulness and to think about the other person’s perspective again. You may not change your mind. You may not. But there’s no reason to hate someone.

 

Amy Parsons [00:12:02] Right.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:12:02] Or to wish them ill, you know? And it’s just that’s not who we were. I don’t think that’s who we are. You know, one of the things I think to a large degree, you have Americans out there are, you know, a family, a job, loving life, working hard. And then you have, you know, maybe people in some universities and people in some walks of life that they just they just can’t get along and refuse to see the other person’s perspective on things. And that’s, that’s too bad.

 

Amy Parsons [00:12:37] Do you feel like it’s more than too bad? Do you feel like that is a threat to our democracy today, just the, the level of polarization and partisanship that we are experiencing?

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:12:47] I think if a democracy depends on debate, that’s what it’s all about and about respecting the other person’s opinion. So if you’ve gotten to a point where some people have some institutions in our country have to, “I’m not going to listen to you anymore because you’re wrong. I don’t care what you say, you’re wrong.” And just totally refuse to see another person’s perspective. That’s when democracy is not functioning the way it should. I have tremendous faith in our people because, again, I’ve seen I’ve seen Americans within the U.S. military that, you know, cut across all parts of our society. And I know how strong they are. And and they represent millions of Americans that are in their families that have never served. So I, I can tone out an awful lot of the what the elites are saying because couple of things very much in their interest to do what they do and to separate us in the way that they try to because it sells, sells clicks or sells time. But I think, I think if the good folks and there’s a lot of good folks in Washington, if they were to, a lot, if they were to take more time and in trying to make the democracy work, democracy work in a, in a more efficient way, I think that would be a good thing. I mean, Americans look to congressmen and senators and presidents and vice presidents and with a lot of respect as a rule, lest they lose that respect. And if they were to encourage us to do things differently or better, I think Americans would react to that in a positive way. But I have tremendous respect, or tremendous confidence, in our people, in our, you know, way of way of life, our Constitution. We’ll be all right.

 

Amy Parsons [00:14:41] Glad to hear you say that. I think a lot of people would be relieved to hear you talk about that silver lining and to have that kind of help at this time. Let’s use that to talk a little bit about voting. You know, with a presidential election coming up in two months. We have tens of thousands of students here who will be voting for the first time in their lives. Right now, we have a major register to vote campaign going on. Four years ago, we had over 76% of our students voting, which is high, higher than the national average. We’re going for 80% this time around. So we’re really focusing on our new voters, on our students here and getting them registered and and participating in democracy. Do you have advice for how our students can best become informed in today’s climate? Informed about the candidates, informed about issues so they go into vote, really understanding the issues and how to vote best for them?

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:15:36] Well, the first thing, it’s obvious, the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy is to know what they’re voting for and to stay away from the emotional stuff and all that. So how does a, whether it’s an 18-year-old or a 28-year-old or a 62-year-old, how do they find out? How do they find the information to help them make better decisions? You know, clearly, the press is one of the, one of the most, one of the fundamental ways to do it. But the press is changed a lot. So like in my case, I, I watch a couple of shows on CNN every day and a couple of shows on Fox News every day. And I read the Wall Street Journal, and which is, very middle of the road, I think, but also The New York Times and I know reporters for The New York Times and The Washington Post. And they’re slanted in their directions. But if you if you if you just get your source of information and beliefs from one source, you’re going to be, not, you’re not going to understand really what the, what the issues are.

 

Amy Parsons [00:16:41] Yeah.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:16:41] You know, I read recently, this is scary, I think, but I read recently that most of the people under the age of 40 don’t trust the media. So they go on to social media to get their information. Well, social media is is in many cases owned and operated by adversaries of ours who are, I mean, we just saw, I think yesterday, the Attorney General of the United States going after Russian misinformation on the Internet, Iranian misinformation on the Internet and Chinese information. They’re phenomenally good at manipulating the news and going after segments of our society. So I would frankly, I’d stay away from the news from the Internet and go to, just find some middle of the road folks that that. But go. You’re going to hear both sides of it and then make a decision. But you’ve got to be informed and you got to vote.

 

Amy Parsons [00:17:35] And you got to vote. Right? And that’s what we tell our students, not just for the presidential election, but for city council right here in their own towns. Right? All of it. All of it makes a difference. You know, this podcast is named “The Next 150,” which is a nod CSU’s last 150 years of history here, but also our collective future. When you think about the future and you just gave us some great silver linings about what gives you hope, but what is your hope for us and what do you believe we as a university and America’s colleges and universities can do to play a positive role in that future?

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:18:16] Well again, the university, you attract a lot of people here from various parts of our society. You know, just whatever you can do to help them talk to each other. And when there is an issue, a big issue like, say, the what’s happening in the Middle East and Gaza to, to bring people together, to give the perspectives on one side and the other side before it gets out of hand.

 

Amy Parsons [00:18:41] Yeah.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:18:41] Again, to encourage them to be honest, to be informed. One of the things that, it works for certain people because they’re making money off of it. But, you know, we’ve got this kind of hyphenated society now, too, where we have, you know, White Americans and Black Americans, and there’s Hispanic Americans. And it’s just increases every day. There’s more and more hyphenization. And, you know, the strength of the country, if you look at our immigration system going back to before the Civil War, the strength of the country where the people came here desperate for a better life. And they weren’t really treated all that well initially, but they made their way. But they became Americans. They didn’t give up their religion. They didn’t give up, but they became Americans. And that’s been the melting pot issue. I know that people will laugh at that now. And, you know, he’s an old guy just always talking about. But that’s what made America what it is. And, you know, e pluribus unum, you know, “From any one.” And I would just encourage them. You know, back when I was growing up, we used to talk about St. Patrick’s Day, I’m Irish Saint Patrick’s Day. I’m also Italian. St Patrick’s Day was a sacred day on St Patrick’s Day, the 17th of March. Everyone in the world was Irish. And then on Columbus Day, everyone in the world was Italian. And then on Hanukkah, everyone in the world for just a few minutes was Jewish. And we all understood that there’s various parts of our backgrounds, but we all Americans. We need to really get back to that.

 

Amy Parsons [00:20:15] Yeah, I think that’s great advice for all university presidents in universities to see ourselves as that melting pot.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:20:21] Don’t encourage the hyphenation.

 

Amy Parsons [00:20:22] Right.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:20:22] You know, yeah, there are differences in our society. I got that. And that then causes people to make decisions. But, but we are much stronger as a, as a people than when we’re, when we’re, you know, running and following the same rules than we are with people that are just doing their own thing.

 

Amy Parsons [00:20:42] Yeah. Well, as we’re wrapping up this conversation, we always end our conversations with advice to today’s college students. And, you know, we just welcomed onto campus a new big class of of new students. They’re full of energy. This is a new class of students who are really disrupted by Covid in their high school careers. And I think they’re coming into college now, really engaged in a in a highly energized way. They’re excited about global issues. They’re excited to dig in and and work on hard things. Just what advice would you give to this new group of students coming into today’s today’s colleges?

 

Amy Parsons [00:21:24] Well, the first thing, as I always would say, is you have an unlimited potential. And the one country on the planet that gives everyone unlimited potential. Yes, we’ve got problems. Yes, but but just it’s a country that really offers opportunity to college students. I would say that, whatever you decide to major in, make sure it’s usable. I interact with a lot of people on the industry side, even when I was at the White House, and they’re desperate for people who bring harder skills, whether it’s, whether it, well, medical I mean, were desperate for doctors and medical personnel. So to kind of consider what they’re going to study and see if it is going to, frankly, be a, be a lifestyle for them. But also does it contribute to the country? We are desperate for the hard, you know, the engineers, frankly, we’re more desperate for tradesmen and women that can know how to, you know, use wrenches and, and, you know, cut things and, you know, welding, and we’re desperate. Medical people? Desperate. Teachers?

 

Amy Parsons [00:22:36] Yeah.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:22:36] I mean, teaching our young people, particularly grammar school and in in high school, were desperate for them and they deserve to be paid better.

 

Amy Parsons [00:22:43] Yeah.

 

Secretary John Kelly [00:22:43] But I would say my advice would be think of yourself as an American. So what, what can I do? What can I study here? What can I do here that I can not only benefit myself but benefit my country?

 

Amy Parsons [00:22:57] That’s great advice. Rams hope you all listen to that great advice from Secretary Kelly. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us today. It’s been a pleasure hosting you. It’s an honor to have you here at Colorado State University and spending a little time with us today at “The Next 150” podcast. Thank you for listening. I’m Amy Parsons, president of Colorado State University, and you’re listening to CSU’s “The Next 150,” where we explore what comes next for CSU by chatting with changemakers who are already leading the charge and shaping our next 150 years. I’m gathering their very best advice for today’s CSU students. Stay tuned to wherever you get podcasts for our next outstanding conversation. Go Rams.